8 Fighters in a Dream-Match Round-Robin for Undisputed Welterweight Supremacy?
Question:Set-Up: Each has at one time held the title (or piece of it) at 147lbs. Opening rd. pits boxers from diff. eras. Initial belt holders, were strictly based on # of def. as champion.
Object: Pick winners of opening bouts, then winners of second round (WBA vs WBO and WBC vs IBF), and finally the winner of the "Unification" bout (WBA/WBO CHAMP VS WBC/IBF CHAMP).
-Color commentary of bouts is viewed much higher compared to lack of any.
-Rational reason for why you chose the winners is also a step in the right direction toward getting the "Best Answer".
-Fighters should be viewed as being "in their prime" in regards to fights at 147lbs and/or Welterweight.
-With exception of Barney Ross' final fight (loss to Armstrong), none of the participants have ever fought one another. Have fun with it. Thanks all.
WBA Champ Jose Napoles vs Buddy McGirt
IBF Champ Felix Trinidad vs Barney Ross
WBO Champ Kid Gavilan vs Ray Leonard
WBC Champ Henry Armstrong vs Carlos Palomino
After looking over the other (mostly) great responses, I see validity from each (-1). I agree with Frank D, in regards to Trinidad's awesome power at Welter. Hard to overlook that punch of his.
Buddy is one of my favorite fighters, because I viewed him as a "throwback". No not for his socks to his knees, the guy was just knowledgeable and always (from what I've ever seen) a great sport all around. His kryptonite was actually peas, sweet peas to be more precise.
Napoles would take Buddy apart over the course of 15rds and get a UD. Mantequilla retains.
Ross in my opinion had one of the greatest chins in boxing history, he lost only four times, never once was he stopped. Even in his final fight with Armstrong, he was beaten from pillar to post, the ref began frequently requesting (almost begging) his corner to throw in the towel, Barney told them "You do and I'll never speak to you again, I want to go out like a champion." One of those great "moments" in boxing that reminds us, well me, why I love the sport. That said, Ross' opposition averaged a KO pct of about 25-30, no real "sluggers" on his resume, Garcia aside. I don't think his chin can handle the viciousness of Trinidad. That and the fact that Tito is one of the "greatest finishers" in the sports history. Ross would fall in 14. Tito retains IBF belt.
The Gavilan-Leonard fight would be dizzying to watch. Two of the fastest guys ever going at it. But as it appears most have already stated, Leonard wins this fight with more cleanly landed punches and takes the WBO strap.
Armstrong vs Palomino, yikes, Carlos better get his track shoes outta the closet. I see Armstrong using the ring like a painter using a canvas. One of the best I've ever seen at landing combos even as he is retreating (Pernell was another master of this skill). If not for Palomino's great professional attitude, this fight could be "NO MAS II". The speedster wins an easy UD. Retains WBC belt.
Next Rd thus provides the great matches of Napoles vs Sugar and Armstrong vs Trinidad. Man, I would save for months to get this on PPV, LOL. Even better, the fights take place in the 50s so we get to see them for free and reg TV.
In the Napoles/Leonard bout its crucial to point out both men possessed outstanding chins. It's this fact in conjunction with Napoles tendency to cut that leads to a late rd stoppage. Ray wins by TKO around the 13th rd. But this would've been a fight people would have talked about to their grand kids.
In the Tito vs "Hammering Hank" battle again I'd like to point out just a couple of things. It's common knowledge that Armstrong was the only guy to ever hold (and defend) belts in three separate weight classes at the same time. His first nine defenses of the Welterweight belt, he only weighed in at around 134lbs, unreal, can you imagine anybody doing that feat today?? Me neither.
As I pointed out in agreement with Frank, Tito was a monster at 147 but Armstrong (marching proudly with all of the 8 guys you picked) had a fantastic "beard". At his prime the man was unstoppable. even when he was outweighed by 10 or 12lbs. Hanks speed and chin are key to this match. Armstong stops Tito by KO in the 12th rd. when Felix succumbs to a vicious 8 punch combination, ref could count to 20 before he gets up. Another bout that the grand-kids have to be subjected to around the "cribbage" table.
I am typing like a mad man here, I really got into these bouts, thanks again vander.
OK Final Conflict, Armstong vs Sugar Ray Leonard, deep breath. In one of the greatest fights ever in the history of boxing at any weight, Leonard takes an early lead on the score cards with quick combinations. He shows great defensive skill as he avoids the majority of Hank's volleys. However, Armstong seems to be getting stronger as the bout moves on while Sugar begins to slow a bit. Armstong begins to smile at the end of the 8-10th rounds. Ray looks worried. At the start of the 11th Armstong jumps all over Leonard with a multitude of 4-6 punch combinations, Leonard is on the ropes trying desperately to defend. On two occasions it looks like the ref is about to jump in and stop the fight. The bell rings and Leonard limps to his corner. The rest of the fight is much like the 11th with Leonard constantly on the verge of being stopped. He survives but, Henry Armstrong wins the bout and the Unified Title on a close Split Decision. Whew, I am winded just from writing about it.
Napoles would use the ring and outbox Buddy,Buddy would only have a punchers chance in this one.
IBF champion - Felix "Tito" Trinidad
Tito was the hardest hitting Welter i have ever witnessed, he would probably get knocked down early as he usually did but he would come back and stop Ross in about the 8th, i know Ross could take punishment but did he ever face anyone who could bang like Trinidad.
WBO champion - Sugar Ray Leonard
Sugar Ray would lead the Kid a merry dance for the whole fight whether it be over 12 or 15. just as the other great Sugar Ray did.
WBC champion - Henry Armstrong
Do i need to reason for this one. Palamino would have a punchers chance but not much more.
WBA Vs WBO fight winner - Sugar Ray Leonard
Would be a great fight and i dont see it going the distance because of their styles, i see Sugar Ray stopping Napoles late on probably on cuts, Napoles was a great great Welterweight champ but i just think Leonard would have too much speed for him.
IBF Vs WBC fight winner - Henry Armstrong
I did have to think about this one because of how big a puncher Tito was but in the end i would just have to say that the class would shine through and Armstrong takes a UD.
Unified Welterweight Champion of the World - Henry Armstrong
Armstrong Vs Leonard what a dream match up, would be a classic without doubt, if Leonard could do what he done to Hagler and keep him off him for 12 or 15 rounds then Leonard would win, but i would say that 4 times out of 5 he wouldnt be able too and therefore i would take Armstrong to win this fight more often than not.
I would say though that Armstrong would have to hope his first defence wasnt against Sugar Ray Robinson because that one he would of lost.
The finals of this would come down to Leonard vs. Armstrong.
The outcome of that fight would be Leonard outclassing Armstrong the way he did to Hagler.
IBF Champ Ross. Ross would control this fight--- UD.
WBO Champ Leonard. Leonard uses his speed and foot work to gain UD.
WBC Champ Armstrong. Armstrong has too much for Palomino UD.
Napoles vs. Ross: Ross withstands punishment from Napoles to take a unanimous decision.
Leonard vs. Armstrong: In a battle of two quick boxers Armstrong lands more punches on route to a unanimous decision setting up a Ross, Armstrong rematch.
Armstrong wins against Ross by UD
Addition - fantastic answers. Dragon if two judges had it a draw and one had for Armstrong, the result would be a majority draw. In your scenario we would need a unification rematch! Bamff you got best answer!
IBF Trinidad in a close decision victory over Ross
WBO Leonard wins a fast action bout against Gavilan
WBC Armstrong beats Palomino badly winning by 12th round TKO
Leonard wins a close decision over Napoles
Armstrong beats Trinidad by 13rh round kayo
Championship Unification bout; The whirlwind nonstopping Henry Armsytrong is relentless and wins a close decison victory over Sugar Ray Leonard.
This was truly a great boxing question.
Armstrong vs Leonard, I have to agree with "bamf", Hank "Hammers" out a 15rd SD (two score cards had it a draw) and the final card gives Armstong a one point victory and the unified title. fantastic submission for the boxing forum, commanda.
More Questions & Answers...