Question:I just watched the whole match, I scored it 8 rounds to Hagler, 3 to leonard, 1 draw.
But Sugar Ray won?!
How do other people see it?
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This is just another example of popular fighters getting decisions. There is a long list of questionable fights. The last Hearns, Leonard fight is an example along with several of Ali's. The theory has always been the challenger has to win the crown, and lots of champions have received the decision when I felt they lost the fight. Hagler wanted the money and gave Leonard all of his requests to get the fight, only going 12 rounds, the size of the ring, the gloves, everything he wanted he got. If the fight had gone 15 rounds Leonard would not have been standing, he barely made the bell at 12.
I thought that Hagler won it by his effective aggression.
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Rubbish. Sugar Ray leonard won the fight.
Do Manny Pacquiao is making an alibi by saying he just want the fight to last (with O. Larios) and finish 12r?
Probably Hagler. But what do they say? The contender has to dominate completely to win title b/c they are already at disadvantage
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I like hagler in the fight, but ray won. good fight. close fight. The decision frustrated hagler so much that he retired.
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Ray won. Get over it.
Guys - Leonard did not win a unanimous decision. The fight was a split decision verdict for Ray, with two scores - 118/110 and 115/113 - for Ray, and one score of 115/113 for Hagler.
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I thought Hagler narrowly won, due to the subtle beating he handed Leonard. But the 3 guys scoring the fight had Leonard as the unanimous winner (Jose J. Guerra 118-110, Lou Filippo 113-115, Dave Moretti 115-113),and nothing anyone says can change that.
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I am a boxing purist. Ray Leonard outboxed Marvelous Marvin Hagler that night. I had Ray winning 9 rounds to 3 for Hagler. Ray was slicker, quicker, and had a tighter defense than Marvin that night. In most fights the stronger and better puncher lands the harder blows. That's automatic and that does NOT win you fights people. Marvin's aggressiveness was not very effective that night and resulted in many missed punches. Boxing is supposed to be about hitting wihtout getting hit in return. This isn't a streetfight with rules. Go watch UFC if you want that. And this business about a challenger coming in and taking it from a champion is a nice thought but nowhere is it written in stone. If one fighter is a better boxer and more effective at what he is doing, then he wins, title or no title. To do otherwise would be to punish a challenger for winning by techniques including a good defense and masterful boxing skills. Why there are so many misinformed boxing fans out there I'll never know.
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You know this discussion can have another answer to this question. I watched a show on ESPN Classic called the Top 5 Reasons, and it was talking about why you can not blame Marvin Hagler for losing to Sugar Ray Leonard. If you have seen the show it stated 5 reasons why Hagler lost to Leonard and here is the 5 reasons:
1. Sugar Ray Leonard - His popularity
2. Management deals - Hagler's manager was only looking at money while Leonard's managers had everything else in their favor (bigger gloves, shorter rounds, and a bigger ring for Leonard to move around in)
3. John Mugabi - That fight took a lot out of Hagler, and Leonard knew that and came out of retirement to challenge Hagler.
4. The referee - He allowed a lot of low blows get away that Leonard was throwing which factored into the last reason why you can not blame Hagler for losing to Leonard and that is...
5. The judges - Two of the Judges were questioned about their judgements while one did believe Hagler did win the fight ( sorry about that had to look that one up).
All of that factors plus Hagler not getting the rematch(which I do not blame Leonard for not giving a rematch for which Leonard later said he was smart not stupid.) is why Hagler retired and moved away to Italy only to return to the US once or twice a year.
Those who seen the fight like I did after that show on ESPN Classic will see what I am talking about.
A question to illustrate the greed and the sorry state that boxing?
First off, just for the record, it was a SPLIT decision. Not a unanimous decision.
Leonard won the show, not the fight. Sure, Hagler missed punches because that was SRL's defensive style- to make you miss. And everytime he missed the audience gave a collective "WHOA!", thus influencing the judges.
Hagler's defensive style was to block/cover up, and he did that effectively against SRL. Watch Leonard's pitty-pat flurries in slow motion. In a 5 punch combo he would mostly be hitting Hagler's gloves(no collective "WHOA!" because blocking doesn't look as spectacular as making someone miss) . But the flurries were so speedy that the audience would give their collective yell, thus influencing the judges. Never mind that most of the shots didn't land and that the ones that did couldn't break a balloon. Need proof? Hagler had brittle skin. He lumped, swelled and cut easily throughout his career, yet his face was completely unmarked after this bout. A testament to SRL's powder puff punches and Hagler's ability to block them. And correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the punchstat show that SRL only landed like 15 more punches than Hags the entire fight?
In the amateurs all one has to do is hit an opponent with the whites of the gloves to score points. Doesn't even matter what part of your opponent you hit. If those are the rules then Leonard won. But it's different in the pros folks. You gotta beat the man in front of you, not see how many times you can slap his arms, gloves and occasionally forehead before you scamper away. Hagler did the punching. Hagler did the hurting.
I think a more pertinent question is this: Why did Ray Leonard avoid Hagler when Marvin was in his killer prime?
DEVON- you are right on the money. Hags was battle worn and I think the Mugabi fight was Ray's signal that it was now safe to challenge him. Much as the James Kinchen fight was Ray's signal that it was now safe to give Hearns a rematch(8 years AFTER their first fight). Didn't want to face the 1982 Hagler or the 1984 Hearns, did he?
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to me leonard clearly won this fight, and i was rooting for hagler. the biggest mistake was for hagler and petronnelis to agree to 12 rd fight instead of 15. this would have gave him a big advantage mentally going into the fight. he conceded to the rounds, size of ring, gloves everything for a couple of million extra. then he comes out and fights the dumbest fight since leonard made the decision to fight duran flatfooted in montreal. he boxes for 4rds. and let leonard sweep it. then he applys some good pressure rest of fights but mostley head hunts. he should have came out from start and ripped it the way he did with hearns. leonard would not have been able to go 15 rds. after long layoff at that pace. hagler fans stop crying after all these years, he has no one to blame but himself and the whacko twins petronellis. they were not top managers who held hagler career back. he should have made way more money and fame then he did
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hagler lost because he fought a cautious fight in the same manner as he fought antuofermo in the first fight and later on duran.
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